What is America?

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:06 am

1750's guy: "You know, I think we should get rid of slavery."
1750's Psychic_Robot: "Slavery has stood the test of time, it's a permanent part of America. Deal with it."

slavery only existed in part of america
guns and capitalism exist everywhere in america

sorry america was founded on both of those things

fuck yeah

now shut up and stop derailing

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:22 am

Erik wrote:indulgence of PR's trolling

He's not trolling, he genuinely believes America should be a gun-toting, capitalism-loving, god-fearing nation, and his justifications for it are stupid. But dropping it, the point's been made. I should probably know better than to respond to him.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:46 am

DSMatticus wrote:He's not trolling.

Er he totally IS. He has admitted before that he openly lies on these forums for trolling lulz.

He probably doesn't even own a gun.

He probably doesn't even ASPIRE to owning a gun.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:56 am

no I don't own a gun because I don't feel the need to carry one

Blicero · Post by **Blicero** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:58 am

EDIT: This was supposed to be in the old thread, but it somehow got pushed into this one during the split.

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:19 am

Whether or not he owns a gun is irrelevant. Personally exercising the second amendment is different than believing it's a vital American freedom.

But I don't think PR's lying about being conservative, if that's what you're suggesting. Do you think he's a closet liberal getting lulz off pretending to be conservative on the internet?

Certainly, he likes aggravating people with the things he says, but that doesn't mean he doesn't believe any of them.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:29 am

DSMatticus wrote:Whether or not he owns a gun is irrelevant. Personally exercising the second amendment is different than believing it's a vital American freedom.

But I don't think PR's lying about being conservative, if that's what you're suggesting. Do you think he's a closet liberal getting lulz off pretending to be conservative on the internet?

Certainly, he likes aggravating people with the things he says, but that doesn't mean he doesn't believe any of them.

I sometimes genuinely question whether he is so idiotic that he really thinks America is a Christian Nation. But then I remember that the reason he's a conservative wacko in the first place is because he doesn't bother with things like evidence, so the outright explicit denouncement of his claim has no actual effect on his belief whatsoever. And then I stop bothering.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:35 am

DSMatticus wrote:We all hate slavery, and that's pretty much hating America.

Actually most of the Founding Fathers hated slavery and that included a number who actually owned (and slept with) slaves. There were two major problems facing many southern colony plantation owners at the time; the use of tobacco (a mostly export crop under the colonial model) was exceptionally prone to long term instability and most of the owners were massively in debt (Jefferson was a good example; Washington was the singular exception because he switched to wheat which he could use to make whiskey when the grain market fell). The second was a real fear that freeing the slaves cold turkey could cause them to revolt; this actually happened on several of the tropical islands, so they had precident.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:47 am

Psychic Robot wrote:slavery only existed in part of america
guns and capitalism exist everywhere in america

Not true. Consider New York as an example ...

Wikipedia wrote:In the aftermath of the Revolution, men examined the institution of slavery against the rights of men they had fought for. In 1781, the state legislature voted to manumit slavery for men who fought with the rebels during the Revolution. Further action toward abolition took longer, but manumission was made easier. By 1790 one in three blacks in New York was free. They began to organize a separate community, with churches, benevolent organizations and businesses.

Steps toward abolition of slavery accumulated, but the state also took steps back as society wavered in its commitment to freedom and rights for all persons. In 1799, the legislature passed a law for gradual abolition. It required African Americans born after the legislation to serve long apprenticeships to young adulthood before gaining full freedom.

African-American defense of the state during the War of 1812 added to public support for their freedom. In 1817, the state provided for abolition of all slavery by 1827. On July 4, 1827, the African-American community celebrated emancipation with a long parade through the city. Black children, for example those of Sojourner Truth's, had to stay in apprenticeship until they came of age.

The reformed Constitution of 1821 withdrew suffrage for free blacks and disfranchised most African-American men (no women had the vote.) They would not recover the vote until years later.

Or New Jersey

Wikipedia wrote:New Jersey banned the importation of slaves in 1788, but at the same time forbade free Negroes from elsewhere from settling in the state.[13] In the years following the American Revolution, the emphasis on legal equality and the rights of man caused legislators in some states to consider abolishing slavery. The New Jersey state legislature was the last in the north to do so, passing a law in 1804 for the gradual abolition of slavery.[14] The 1804 statute and subsequent laws freed only slaves born after the law was passed. Furthermore, African Americans born to slave parents after July 4, 1804,[15] had to serve lengthy apprenticeships to the owners of their mothers. Women were freed at 21, but men were not emancipated until the age of 25. Slaves born before these laws were passed were considered "apprenticed for life."

Although at first New Jersey allowed African American men to vote, the legislature disfranchised them in 1807. In 1830 two-thirds of those enslaved in the North lived in New Jersey. It was not until 1846 that New Jersey completely abolished slavery.[13] Although slavery was abolished in 1846 by statute ("An Act to Abolish Slavery"), it was only a name change[citation needed].[16] Former slaves were termed apprentices and were still subject to servitude to their owners.[citation needed] It was not until the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution was passed that all forms of involuntary servitude were abolished in New Jersey.[citation needed]

There were also communities of free negros and freedmen, possibly at Dunkerhook in Paramus[17] and at the state line at Skunk Hollow.[18]

Here are some numbers.

Enslaved portion of Virginia's population in 1775: 40% (186,000 people)57
Enslaved portion of New York's population in 1775: 14% (over 26,000 people)58
Enslaved portion of Connecticut's population in 1775: 8% (over 15,000 people)59
Enslaved portion of Rhode Island's population in 1775: 6% (over 3,000 people)60

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:04 am

DSMatticus wrote:but that doesn't mean he doesn't believe any of them.

And it doesn't mean he DOES believe any of them either.

For all we know he believes NOTHING he says here.

The only thing we know for sure is that HE says he definitely DOESN'T believe SOME of what he says here.

The only reasonable and consistent way to treat him from that point onwards is to assume that basically everything he says here is or might as well be a lie made up for trolling purposes.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:26 am

I sometimes genuinely question whether he is so idiotic that he really thinks America is a Christian Nation.

pretty sure I've never said that and you might be confusing me with tzor, however I do believe it but not in the way that the religious right does (the bible's in the constitution or something)

howevern we are a nation founded and run by christians (and jews amirite) thus we are a christian nation by default. also protestantism heavily influences politics and ideology, obviously the actual liberals in america (not like catholic social justice squad or blue-collar democrats but liberal jews, feminists, and college socialists) can whine about it but most people in america who don't spend their time protesting and blogging on huffpo get that hard work and diligence work out in the end and that life sucks, so it's good to make the best of it and put your nose to the grindstone

so what I'm saying is fuck yeah america

you can go found your atheist sperglord colony elsewhere just wait until ayn rand shows up to ruin your shit or when you elect someone and the tyranny starts

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:39 am

Psychic Robot wrote:obviously the actual liberals in america (not like catholic social justice squad or blue-collar democrats but liberal jews, feminists, and college socialists) can whine about it but most people in america who don't spend their time protesting and blogging on huffpo get that hard work and diligence work out in the end and that life sucks, so it's good to make the best of it and put your nose to the grindstone

so what I'm saying is fuck yeah america

you can go found your atheist sperglord colony elsewhere just wait until ayn rand shows up to ruin your shit or when you elect someone and the tyranny starts

See, like this, it's so stupid, and hits on so many of the obviously stupid things that smart people take time to parody that on first glance, I assume it must be a troll. But then I remember that PR has never done anything to actually indicate any kind of intelligence ever, and it becomes much harder to decide.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:39 am

sorry that you're not going to have universal health care in your lifetime, hope you can move to Canada

Count Arioch the 28th · Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:14 am

I just want to say one thing: America tests lower than most nations because we are the only nation that tests everyone in school. You know the Special Education department where there's people in their mid to late teens that are so developementally disabled they aren't even out of diapers yet? Yeah, those kids take the same tests that the rest of us do. (In fact, having enough retards in your school is a great way to lose your school funding thanks to No Child Left Behind. Sneakiest education cut EVER).

Anyway, I feel that America is a nation designed so the rich can do whatever they want without regard to what the government says. Which takes a lot of poor people to support their extravagant lifestyle. The right says that socialist reforms are un-american. They are 100% correct; anything that takes away from the rich IS un-american.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:48 am

Wikipedia wrote:The United States of America (also referred to as the United States, the U.S., the USA, or America) is a federal constitutional republic comprising fifty states and a federal district.

/thread

violence in the media · Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:01 pm

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I just want to say one thing: America tests lower than most nations because we are the only nation that tests everyone in school. You know the Special Education department where there's people in their mid to late teens that are so developementally disabled they aren't even out of diapers yet? Yeah, those kids take the same tests that the rest of us do. (In fact, having enough retards in your school is a great way to lose your school funding thanks to No Child Left Behind. Sneakiest education cut EVER).

That's...not exactly correct. Now, I don't know if things may be somehow different in Virginia, but it Florida it works like this:

Kids below a 70 IQ have the option of taking the standardized tests OR doing what's called "alternative assessment," which is based upon a portfolio and IEP (individual education plan) goals.

For the generally low-testing kids (mid 70s IQ, for example), they take the NCLB tests, but their scores only count if there are 30 or more of them in a school, AND if they comprise 15% or more of the school's total TESTED population (so for a high school, that would be 9th and 10th grade, for example).

If a kid is in high school and is still in diapers, they're likely on alternative assessment and their scores don't "count" for the school. In fact, they bring further funding into the school with ESE (exceptional student education) funding.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:27 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:
Socialism

America
lol

The majority of Americans support socialism in some form. It's just you can't get them to agree on what and how much, and a lot of them don't even realize it.

(Keep your government hands off of my Medicare!)

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:36 pm

Kaelik wrote:
Psychic Robot wrote:obviously the actual liberals in america (not like catholic social justice squad or blue-collar democrats but liberal jews, feminists, and college socialists) can whine about it but most people in america who don't spend their time protesting and blogging on huffpo get that hard work and diligence work out in the end and that life sucks, so it's good to make the best of it and put your nose to the grindstone

so what I'm saying is fuck yeah america

you can go found your atheist sperglord colony elsewhere just wait until ayn rand shows up to ruin your shit or when you elect someone and the tyranny starts
See, like this, it's so stupid, and hits on so many of the obviously stupid things that smart people take time to parody that on first glance, I assume it must be a troll. But then I remember that PR has never done anything to actually indicate any kind of intelligence ever, and it becomes much harder to decide.

You have to realize something:

Psychic Robot wrote:actually I write in all lowercase when I don't give a fuck. when I care about what I've written, I write normally.

He basically doesn't care about any of this.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:25 pm

What is America? A miserable pile of- oh wait, wrong one. Never mind.

And this post was as useful and informative as any other in the thread.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:28 pm

RobbyPants wrote:You have to realize something:

Psychic Robot wrote:actually I write in all lowercase when I don't give a fuck. when I care about what I've written, I write normally.
He basically doesn't care about any of this.

You are an idiot if you believe that.

Here's what happened:

1) Someone made the comment that all trolls type in lower case.

2) PR, a self admitted troll who previously typed with proper cases, suddenly began typing in all lower case, all the time, 100% of the time, and he hasn't typed with proper cases since that event.

3) Someone pointed out that he obviously did this as part of his trolling, because he thinks it's funny to give hints about it.

4) He made that statement.

Now, we objectively know that his statement is false, because he a) does it all the time, b) used to never do it, c) only started doing it when he thought it would make him seem more like a troll.

Why you would take anything he says at face value is beyond me.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:49 pm

So, Kaelik, what are you trying to accomplish by engaging PR?

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:57 pm

Kaelik wrote:Why you would take anything he says at face value is beyond me.

Nuff said. Good point.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:58 pm

CatharzGodfoot wrote:So, Kaelik, what are you trying to accomplish by engaging PR?

Nothing, I'm not engaging PR.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:15 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:
I sometimes genuinely question whether he is so idiotic that he really thinks America is a Christian Nation.
pretty sure I've never said that and you might be confusing me with tzor, however I do believe it but not in the way that the religious right does (the bible's in the constitution or something)

howevern we are a nation founded and run by christians (and jews amirite) thus we are a christian nation by default. also protestantism heavily influences politics and ideology, obviously the actual liberals in america (not like catholic social justice squad or blue-collar democrats but liberal jews, feminists, and college socialists) can whine about it but most people in america who don't spend their time protesting and blogging on huffpo get that hard work and diligence work out in the end and that life sucks, so it's good to make the best of it and put your nose to the grindstone

so what I'm saying is fuck yeah america

you can go found your atheist sperglord colony elsewhere just wait until ayn rand shows up to ruin your shit or when you elect someone and the tyranny starts

Actually, that's sort of the same way I generally use the term. If I ever use the statement "America is a Christian Nation" is is often a two edged sword and a half insult.

The fundamental elements of "Christian" or rather "Protestant Christian" ideas were burned into the laws written by our founding fathers. Anyone who is different from those ideas had to leave or live with it. (In most of colonial New York / New England Roman Catholic priests were actually barred from being in the colony; in New York there was a penalty of death for a Roman Catholic priest to preach to an American Native, even though by then, most of them had already converted as a result of priests following french fur traders decades before.

Blue laws existed up into the middle of the 20th century. If your particular faith had a "day of rest" on the Sunday, then deliberately not working was merely a mild inconvenience if you wanted something from a store, but if your faith required you to rest on Saturday or Friday then it was more than mild.

The Christian notion of marriage is still solidly entwined into law. We actually held up a territory hostage and would not let it become a state until it's major religion gave up on polygamy.

And when certain religious elements came in who found no objection to wine and beer, we, in knee jerk fashion, immediately crammed prohibition upon the constitution.

RiotGearEpsilon · Post by **RiotGearEpsilon** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:07 pm

You people know this forum has a perfectly functional Ignore Person option, right? If you're so gung-ho about not engaging with Psychic Robot you can toss him down the memory hole.